The Samovar

who can read these cancels?

red1999 - 5/11/2007 at 10:20

one cancel reads OMSK, but i cant decide on the second word...
the other is totally unkown to me

any help is welcome

stefan

russland stempel 1 und 2 rubel klein.jpg - 69kB

Lacplesis - 5/11/2007 at 12:57

The right one is OMSK-KADISHEVO, AKMOLINSK OBLAST

Gary - 5/11/2007 at 14:27

The one on the left is Kelerovo, Vladimir prov.

igorfmyask - 5/11/2007 at 17:38

I have check several Russian/English dictionaries including one issued in 1910. There are translation of Russian administrative units:

Gubernia - Government
Oblast - Region
Uesd - District
Volost - Volost

I think we need to establish terminology.

jlechtanski - 5/11/2007 at 18:06

I think it best to just use the Russian administrative names.

We would also have to have translations for okrug, kray, etc.

An otdelenie is and otdelenie --when you use a translation, you loose precision.

How do you translate selo, sloboda, stanitsa, derevnya? -- village, village, village, village?

IvoSteijn - 5/11/2007 at 21:19

I'm a big fan of not translating too much. I've seen some terrible translations of "Ehkspeditsiya" for example, and it really is best to leave it untranslated.

igorfmyask - 5/11/2007 at 22:33

I also see problems with translation and I have no idea how to translate "hutor" or "zimovka" but using of translitteration instead translation will create problems for people who do not know Russian. By the way we translate into Russian "county" as "grafstvo" but who is "graf" (count)?

Gary - 5/12/2007 at 03:58

We also need to be sure the transliteration of the word is correct as well.

As far as translations, I will stay with guberniya=province for now. Of course we can also ignore some possibilities as those provided by the authors and others below.

Vinokurov & Epstein, Russian Field Post in 1914-1918: guberniya is province

Kiryushkin & Robinson, Russian Postmarks an Introduction and Guide: guberniya is province

Russian-English Dictionary, A. I. Smirnitsky, published Moscow in 1991 by Russian Language: guberniya is province

Wikipedia, "Guberniya (Russian: e IPA: (also gubernia, guberniia, gubernya) was a major administrative subdivision of the Imperial Russia, usually translated as governorate or province."

Encyclopedia Britannica,
"imperial Russia
...and the Towns (1785). Essentially, the reforms divided the empire's territory into provinces of roughly equal population; the division paid heed to military considerations. Each of these units (guberniya) was put under the supervision and responsibility of a governor or governor-general acting in the name of the ruler, with the right of direct communication with him."

Random House Unabridged Dictionary of 2006,
"guberniya [goo-ber-nee-uh; Russ. goo-byer-nyi-yuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun
1. (in the Soviet Union) an administrative division of the volosts, smaller than a district.
2. (in Russia before 1917) an administrative division equivalent to the province.

These terms all appear to be "administrative" units established by politicians in an attempt to create boundaries within which control exists.

jlechtanski - 5/12/2007 at 08:21

Unfortunately there are many transliteration systems in use.

Gary - 5/12/2007 at 09:08

Perhaps we could use the one listed on this site for entries in this Samovar? Whether anybody agrees that it is the best one is not the issue. Just a thought...

red1999 - 5/12/2007 at 13:09

thanks alot!

vladimir ist east of moscow while omsk is south of the ural

it would really be helpful to have a map of that time with all the cities, areas of that time... but it seems nothing is on the www

stefan