The Samovar

Baedeker and Murray Travel guides, etc. pre-1917

Gary - 4/15/2009 at 17:05

Is anybody collecting these gems of the past? If so, let's exchange notes.

Gary - 4/16/2009 at 17:23

What a shame! There is a lot of information available. True, it is not a stamp catalog, but it does have significant historical value.:(

jlechtanski - 4/16/2009 at 18:38

The Baedeker was reprinted at one time. I had (have) a copy but I can't seem to find it. It does have plenty of useful information.

Never saw a Murray. Are there other travel guides out there for Imperial Russia?

howard - 4/17/2009 at 06:15

Baedeker guides to Russia were published in French (1893, 1897, 1902), German (7 editions from the 1880s to 1912), and English (1914 only). The English edition is the most valuable, selling for close to $1000 in fine condition. There were also two editions of a separate German language Baedeker guide to St. Petersburg (1901, 1913). These are rare and sell for $2000 or more. Murray guides were more cheaply produced and are harder to find in fine condition. They are not as detailed as Baedekers and their maps are not as good. There were five editions of the Russia guide (1865-1893). Many other guidebooks exist in various languages. Check ebay or bookfinder.com

ameis33 - 4/17/2009 at 16:08

What about the "Slownik Geograficzny Krolestwa Polskiego"? It doesn't contain maps, as far as i could see, but a detailled description of all towns, villages, districts, suburbs, etc. and it is available online in several places

Gary - 4/17/2009 at 17:05

Is it in Polish or Polish and Russian?

ameis33 - 4/18/2009 at 04:28

Are you afraid by the polish language? Let's try the new upload...

p0006.jpg - 279kB

Lacplesis - 4/18/2009 at 04:45

If some of these travel guides contain adress listings of foreign consulates, I would deeply appreciate scans of these pages for my consulates database!

Gary - 4/18/2009 at 05:27

Quote: Originally posted by Lacplesis  
If some of these travel guides contain adress listings of foreign consulates, I would deeply appreciate scans of these pages for my consulates database!


That is a BIG order!. There are over 350 editions readily available on the Internet of the Murray and Baedeker series. I do not think I can fill the order.:umm:

Gary - 4/18/2009 at 05:28

Quote: Originally posted by ameis33  
Are you afraid by the polish language? Let's try the new upload...


Nope not afraid. At my age learning to handle another language other than German, French, Russian, and English, does not magically happen.:)

Lacplesis - 4/18/2009 at 07:24

Quote: Originally posted by Gary  

That is a BIG order!. There are over 350 editions readily available on the Internet of the Murray and Baedeker series. I do not think I can fill the order.:umm:


I was under the impression we where talking about issues on Russia...

Sorry for my ignorance. A discussion on travel guides in general seemed a little of topic on a message board for russian philately.

Well then.
Yes, I do collect travel guides for the lower austrian region of Wachau, now a world cultural heritage region.
If you are interested, I can supply you with an analysis of the quality of the pre 1945 publications?

Gary - 4/18/2009 at 08:12

Understood. Now let's take the International Exhibition held in Paris in 1900, for which we have a few articles in the philatelic journals. The Baedeker for Paris 1900 (in English) includes several pages on the exhibition. True, this is not about stamps or catalogs, EFOs, or varieties, or even postal history per se. It does fit more closely in the Social Philately category. A larger picture is painted by adding the information.

jlechtanski - 4/18/2009 at 14:36

In that the travel guides covered railway routes, branch lines, stations, steamer service, frontier crossings, maps, placename locations, etc., they are useful to philately.

Roberto's sample page from the "Slownik Geograficzny Krolestwa Polskiego" shows that German equivalent place names are part of the information, but not Russian. A problem if the Russian name is markedly different from that of the Polish. However, the "gmina" is given - which is the "uezd" in Russian. That makes determining the guberniya possible.

Gary - 4/18/2009 at 16:49

John, I have a few (3) of the Toms of this work, but nowhere near all. Do you know where I can go to download them?

Thanks

Gary


jlechtanski - 4/18/2009 at 17:02

I know of two places that have it in DJVU format:

University of Warsaw
http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/SGKPi/indexse2.html#x3-5...

The Małopolska Digital Library
http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/publication?id=113&from=plan...

I downloaded the volumes using Małopolska. Click on one of the icons at the left of each volume listing and them click "download" in the left panel. Each volume in in ZIP format.


Gary - 4/18/2009 at 17:12

Thanks, I'll download them and have a look.

Gary - 4/19/2009 at 17:05

Although these are not Murray or Baedeker, they are nice. 14 toms and 2 supplements. A lot of disk space and information, but I now have then in PDF format.

Thanks for the URL.

verny - 5/12/2009 at 11:27

An interesting thread, I have been away from the fold for one reason or another for some time but good to come back and find something of interest. I have a 1914 Baedeckers and a healthy collection of old maps, guides, travelogues, old newspapers, photos and a whole range of non-philatelic items which not only fit well with the social philately type of exhibit but also shed light on the times and practices past and present. I would be happy to correspond and share information.
I also have a copy of the (British) Imperial General Staff guide to the Russian Army (1914) and am happy to answer questions of a reasonable nature.

Gary - 5/14/2009 at 17:34

verny,

I think we are trying to swim upstream given the millions of responses? Can we turn this into a catalog with associated values and a margin of profit? I'm sure we would get a few more responses if money could be made? :D

stamplover - 8/8/2009 at 16:39

I saw the original Baedeker in good condition at abebooks.com for $500, bought my copy - reprint of the 1970s - for about $35. Unfortunately, it was reprinted on acid paper and is already quite fragile. The maps are almost useless, poorly printed and too dense. To my surprise, the book has quite a few mistakes: wrong year here and there, incorrect name of an architect, etc. I found that I can seek more reliable answers to research questions just surfing Russian Internet, though in some cases Boedeker is helpful.

Gary - 8/8/2009 at 17:19

I am not sure what reliable means or is, but it has nothing to do with cost most of the time. True, there is a wealth of information available. Unfortunately, you should not accept a sole source as "the truth." I have seen so-called official documents that were incorrect or not complete. BUT together the information available gives a good picture of events back a 100 or more years ago. We need to explore all the available documents. I love doing it!:)

There are two reprints of the 1914 Baedeker, one is poor as stamplover says and the other is very good. I have both issues. Additionally, I also have many digital editions of Baedeker and Murray plus others. Maybe between all of them I can get a good picture of what was?

But I would challenge stamplover in providing what is in error rather than mention it. Please tell us what Baedeker stated and what is the truth as you see it. Please include sources you used.

Thanks