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Author: Subject: Czaristic date postmarks: Is there a nomenclature?
tbeberger
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[*] posted on 7/11/2007 at 15:08
Czaristic date postmarks: Is there a nomenclature?


Hello
In the moment I am compiling an article dealing with the different date postmarks used for cancelation between 1860 and 1917 in Odessa. Is there anywhere a nomeclature existing for these postmarks in czaristic Russia in general which I could adapt for Odessa? I think it would be adequate to use the type of the name of the month as a first criterion: Cyrillic month names followed by latin numbers and therafter by arab numbers. These three large groups have to be subdivided furtheron. Any information? Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Best regards, Thomas Berger
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IvoSteijn
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[*] posted on 7/11/2007 at 15:22


All the datestamps used during this period (except for the Vokzal marks, of course) are circular. The usual division is by the date: 3-line date, followed by cross-shaped date, followed by 1-line date. Since the first type had the month in Cyrillic and the second in Latin numerals that sort of matches your proposal. But the 1-line date postmarks occur with the month as a Latin numeral, as a Cyrillic abbreviation and even as an Arabic numeral.

In the 3-line date you can make a division between the first generation of "Berlin" postmarks (produced in Germany, all with a simple fleuron at the bottom) and the later, Russian-produced models. An important subgroup there are the "posthorn at foot" postmarks, of which Odessa had many.

The cross-shape date postmarks are a fairly homogeneous group, although even there you can make divisions according to type of office.

Finally, the single-line date postmarks, which are almost all double circle marks starting around 1904, occur with a date section that extends all the way to the outer circle ("long date-bridge") and a date section that stays within the inner circle. The style of the date can vary, as already mentioned, and the presence, absence or style of a time designation is another detail that can vary.

All these divisions are essentially groups of similar appearances, you can of course also divide the postmarks into office of use (pochtamt, post office, post-telegraph office, railway office, border post office, etc.).
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 7/11/2007 at 15:23


For organizing postmarks of a large city I would reference the two great studies:

"A Study of the Postmarks of Moscow, 1765-1917 by Gary Combs and Noel Warr"

"St. Petersburg: The Imperial Post - Its Postmarks and Other Postal Markings, 1765-1914" by Ian Baillie and Eric Peel.

The postmarks are organized by function. Secondarily they are organized by date and structure.

Prigara would be anther study that referenced their structure.
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IvoSteijn
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[*] posted on 7/11/2007 at 23:06


The Combs-Warr book does not cover the full 1860-1917 period, and is not very useful as a reference of postmark types.

Having seen Mr.Berger's website, I know he's quite familiar with the literature, so I won't even mention Kiryushkin & Robinson, a more useful reference for postmark evolution.
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tbeberger
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[*] posted on 7/15/2007 at 08:54


Dear contributors
Thanks for the information given. In principal I am relatively well aware of the types of postmarks existing. What I am looking for is a schedule which says Berlin arabesque postmarks are called type A, posthorn postmarks are called type B, .... or using latin or arab numbers or whatever. The nomeclature used for the large cities like St. Petersburg or Moscow are not very helpful because they are build on function. I would like to use the purely visual clue when getting such a mark which helps to put them in an order.
Does such a schedule exist for any of the middle size cities like Odessa, Warsaw, Kiev and of course also for the smaller cities. I'm not aware of any and that is why I am asking here.
Best regards from sunny Switzerland, Thomas Berger
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/16/2007 at 07:33


Thomas, the topic may be worth studying. There are not a lot of postmark collectors from a purely aesthetic viewpoint. Most people tend to go for the ones that are scarce and worth money. I'll ask a couple of people who may be interested and get back to you via email, if they want to work with you on this topic.
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IvoSteijn
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[*] posted on 7/16/2007 at 12:46


Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Thomas, the topic may be worth studying. There are not a lot of postmark collectors from a purely aesthetic viewpoint. Most people tend to go for the ones that are scarce and worth money. I'll ask a couple of people who may be interested and get back to you via email, if they want to work with you on this topic.


I don't know any collectors who tend to "go for the ones that are scarce and worth money." Postmark collectors pick a field (location, period or type of postmark) and collect that. The scarcity and/or value of the postmark is something a collector deals with, not something a collector pursues.
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rsmall003
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[*] posted on 7/16/2007 at 16:54
Postmark nomenclature


Hi,

While writing a book on the Krag canceling machine, I came up with a good nomenclature for these machines (type system). It could be extended using the LaPosta nomenclature for hand cancels. I would like to work with you on this, if you like.
rsmall003@comcaszt.net
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tbeberger
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[*] posted on 7/20/2007 at 14:48


@ rsmall003 :

Hello
I tried to send you a direct mail via rsmall003@comcaszt.net twice but it did not work.
Of course I am interested in your nomenclature and would like to see if it can be adapted to date postmarks in general. The Krag postmarks of Odessa should also be included. Could you give me further details?
If you do not hear anything from me, this will be due to the fact that I will go for three weeks into holidays the next weekend.
All the best
Thomas Berger, Switzerland
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rsmall003
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[*] posted on 7/29/2007 at 10:33


You had my email wrong, it is rsmall003@comcast.net (no z in comcast)
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