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Author: Subject: Russia 7 kop 1884 question: closed crown variety?
kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 05:08
Russia 7 kop 1884 question: closed crown variety?


Hi, I have a question about this copy I found of a 1884 7 kopeke Michel 33 (sorry, I do not have Scott). Forgive me if this turns out to be a silly newbie question, but what exactly is the copy on the right? Are there different prints of this issue?

863926006_b08cf318b1_o.jpg - 118kB

The crown on top of the eagle is closed? Also, the second stamp seems to be "cleaner" in print.

Are these varieties common? Do other 1884 values show the same varieties?

Thanks in advance.




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Lacplesis
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 06:28


According to the Michel there are the following colors:
33Aa blau
33Cb blaugrau

According to Ebnet:
Fa dunkel blau
Fb lebhaftblau
Fc dunkel violettultramarin mit metallischem Glanz
Fd schwarzgraublau (indigo)
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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 07:17


Hi, Lacplesis. Thanks for the info.

What Michel do you have? Mine is from 2000/2001 and does not mention the color varieties. And certainly not that "closed crown".




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Lacplesis
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 08:51


Michel Russland Spezial 2005

it lists 10 different flaws, but no "closed crown".
I will check my stock of MiNr. 33 for it.
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 09:35


That would be Scott 35.

I wonder if you might have a forgery made to defraud the post office.

Look at the tail of the "7" in the lower left corner. They are different on the two stamps.

Also look at the tail feathers at the bottom of the eagle. They are connected on the second stamp.
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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 10:14


Thanks for the Scott number. I was kind of hoping it was a forgery to defraud the post office. In some ways I like the variety stamp better, it seems, I do not know, more "refined".

I noticed the tail on the 7, but I was not sure if I was seeing part of the cancel.
I'll provide a bigger scan.




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Bill Stoten
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 10:25


The closed crown is 95% part of the postmark I think. The colour variety is purely a combination of to much soaking on the right stamp and age. I often come across stamps off paper of the 'posthorn' issue that have colour loss and bleed to make the ink look lighter. If you look at the solid portion of the print you can see slight patches of light where the dye has been leached. Another reason not to soak off stamps ... ? My guess that it's unlikely to be a forgery as no stamp is exactly the same ... where would fly-speckers be without these differences??
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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 11:31


Okay, here are the larger scans. I do not think the postmark is really involved in the closed crown. I magnified it enormously and it stays blue. The tail on the "7" I do believe to be part of the postmark. And the difference in the eagle tails is not uncommon and hardly indicative of a "variety". But judge for yourselves:

865292558_432f4c5853_o.jpg - 82kB

865292566_a5a7fa8264_o.jpg - 85kB

865292522_c6fe90bcc8_o.jpg - 119kB

Also, if indeed I am correct and the closed crown is not a matter of postmarks, then this is quite a remarkable fly speck as it involves two simultaneous "errors" forming a perfect imperial (ie closed) crown. And look at the top of the crown. I am not implying that this "should" be a forgery, but I do find the "variety" rather spectacular.




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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 11:35


Oopsie, sorry for the typo in the last picture. "Bormal" is not a word, I believe :-) Anyway, here is another scan. The magnified crown, notice the blue:

865487906_4cfe2dfbf7.jpg - 56kB

PS: The normal type stamp in my previous post appears to be damaged under the crown area. Sorry about that. Also, I had a look at a 2 kopeke stamp from the 1888 series (with lightning bolts) and the crown on that stamp is closed as well, by design. I do not know if this is important, but it struck me.




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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 12:28


Yeah, it is interesting. I also considered bleeding, but it is just too neat and in opposite directions as well (two ends of the crown turning to each other and downwards). In any case, this is one hell of a freak.



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Lacplesis
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 15:09


I just check some dozends of MiNr. 33.
I found crown open and closed distributed nearly in equal ammount.
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Bill Stoten
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 15:31


Okay, now I see what you mean about the closed crown . I guess it#s plate wear most likely as the cross on the crown has lost distinction as well. Probably not a positional flaw though... unless you can find a few blocks... mint ones too??
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[*] posted on 7/21/2007 at 22:36


Lacplesis, could you post an example to compare?



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Lacplesis
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[*] posted on 7/22/2007 at 13:51


I checked 60 #33's from my stockbook:

43 crown open dates from 1884-1888
17 crown closed dates from 1886-1888

both types looked like the examples shown above. Only 3 open crowns appeared to be a little more damaged.
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Lacplesis
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[*] posted on 7/22/2007 at 13:53


..but there was also a pair in my Stockbook showing both crowns side by side.
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 7/22/2007 at 14:10


It is amazing if this variety has not been cataloged before.

Neither Lobachevsky or Zagorsky list this variety.

Zagorsky differentiates between an 1884 and 1888 issue by the size of the stamp (not the design).

He lists the 1884 issue as having a 1,5 mm between the designs and the 1888 issue as 1.75-1.8 mm.

I would be interesting to know which issue the pair comes from.
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kiompie
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[*] posted on 7/23/2007 at 02:27


Thanks, Lacplesis!

That pair is especially interesting. It seems to "prove" that it is not a matter of different issues. My theory is that the open crown is indeed a, very common, plate flaw. The three damaged examples above could be attributed to plate wear, but Lacplesis' excellent pair clearly shows that plate wear is not an issue either.

So, to repeat Bill's question, does anyone happen to have a block or complete sheet to check the position?




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