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Author: Subject: RSFSR 100r
Duck
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[*] posted on 12/24/2007 at 17:22
RSFSR 100r


Hello!
Has found out here such a stamp.
Whether the given version is known? It would be desirable to learn on a leaf with what control sign it there is also number of this mark in a leaf!
Thanks.
Paul.


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GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 12/26/2007 at 12:26


Rossica Journal 149 (December 2007) has a large article (FlySpecker section) on this specific issue. There is an illustration of similar item, but unfortunately authors could not find plate position. We are still looking for it. See illustration below. I would be interested to get high resolution scan of this item (300 dpi) for possible inclusion in next FlySpecker article. Please email it to me at mirskyg@yahoo.com
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[*] posted on 12/26/2007 at 14:41


Thanks for the answer!
Scan a stamp to you has sent!
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[*] posted on 1/8/2008 at 17:27


This looks like a case where some foreign matter was on the paper when the image was printed and eventually fell off.

If that is the case, it would not be a constant variety.
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[*] posted on 1/9/2008 at 11:03


Definitely not so!

Is this an unknown constant plate variety?
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[*] posted on 1/10/2008 at 14:31


Quote:
Исходное сообщение добавлено jlechtanski
Definitely not so!

Is this an unknown constant plate variety?


I think, that presence of 3 stamps from different sheets confirms, that it not a random error, and a repeating defect of a cliche.
I can somebody show the same stamps, or only the happy owner of such version?
:starhit:
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[*] posted on 1/11/2008 at 18:09


This veriety definitely looks like something that worth looking for. There are number of "freaks" like this one show up at some point during printing and stay there until somebody at the factory notices it and corrects cliche. Let's try to find partial or full sheet with this "broken frame". I definitely will check my full sheets of this stamp. Another challenge is to find the same variety on perforated stamp...
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Gary
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[*] posted on 1/11/2008 at 18:35


How about on cover as well? Or were they never used or intended for use on cover?:drummer:
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[*] posted on 1/12/2008 at 00:03


There are plenty of these 100 rub stamps (perforated and imperforated) on RSFSR inflation covers. They are definitely were widely used. This is not a problem.

The problem we are trying to address here by asking for sheet or partial sheet is to establish LOCATION of this variety on the plate.

It would be nice to find this specific variety on cover, but it does not increase our joint philatelic knowledge about this issue. The fact that somebody glued stamp with broken corner on the envelop really does not create new piece of philatelic information, only nice piece to exhibit.
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[*] posted on 1/12/2008 at 14:39


I think seeing a variety such as this on cover could be useful in the case of printers' waste that never made it to the post offices.

It would be truly odd if DUCK has three mint copies of this variety, but no covers or even used stamps exist.
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[*] posted on 1/14/2008 at 00:01


Quote:
Исходное сообщение добавлено jlechtanski
I think seeing a variety such as this on cover could be useful in the case of printers' waste that never made it to the post offices.

It would be truly odd if DUCK has three mint copies of this variety, but no covers or even used stamps exist.


I think what to find on an envelope the given stamp very few chances. Most likely sheets with such stamp was not much. Very appreciable defect, and a cliche have quickly replaced.

Following defect - 2 tails at the letter "У". There is at somebody a same version?

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[*] posted on 1/14/2008 at 18:54


Then why can we not call it an EFO?
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[*] posted on 1/14/2008 at 23:37


Gary,

If certain change of the basic stamp design exists in multiple sheets of the stamp - it is a VARIETY.

BTW: it does not need to be on all sheets, multiple sheets are OK too. it even does not need to be in the same position. There are constant varieties that exist but change position from sheet to sheet (or group of sheets to group of sheets).

If it is a "one of the kind" change because of some kind of ink drop, fooldover, etc. - it is EFO.

This is exactly what we are trying to explore here not by declaring it to be this type or that type, but rather asking our readers to do some research...

The whole point of "fly specking" is to determine if certain variation of stamp design is a EFO or CONSTANT VARIETY.

Again (to make it clear) this specific example was posted here to encourage our reqaders to look for:

1. more samples with the same change (to prove that it exists on multiple sheets)

and/or

2. other sheets/partial sheets with the same variety in the same position (to prove that this is a plate variety).

Some of the stamps with changed design stay as EFO for many years until sombody will not ran into stack of sheets where it is present....
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[*] posted on 1/15/2008 at 18:07


Understood. Only unused stamps in sheets or partial sheets for location identification are allowed.:) Where they were found (in what Post offices) or how they were used is not important. May the philatelic force be with you.
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[*] posted on 1/15/2008 at 18:56


Gary,

As a "professional" postal historian I don't think you understood purpose of this specific research and discussion we have here. It is OK, not everybody entitled to be a "Flyspecker" :). .. I usually trying to stay away from discussions about location of post offices, how specific letter travelled, etc., since I don't know much about it. At the same time I am always happy to offer help to researchers of Russian postal history, because it really puzzles me how it is possible to study Russian postal history without knowledge of Russian language and I see many postal history collectors suffering from this.

Now, back to original topic... I always love to find cover with certain variety and I have a number of them in my collection. It is a great joy to find it in the box with regular covers (especially when dealer marks it ONLY as a postal history item :) )...

At the same time the fact that I find this stamp on cover does not really help me in MY SPECIFIC STAMP RESEACH. It does not prove to me if it is a constant variety or EFO. It shows me only that this stamp was postally used, but finding postally used stamp with this variety will accompish exactly the same.
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:18
Plate flaws associated with the 70R 'error'


There are several plate flaws associated with the 70r 'error'.

Specifically stamps in position 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 of the block of nine where the 70r stamp is in position 5.

The block attached shows the following:
Position 1 - no flaws
Position 2 - no flaws
Position 3 - indentation in design - top left
Position 4 - two indentations in the top - one towards the left, the other towards the right
Position 8 - 'cigarette' variety

Additional images will follow ...



237a-3 150.jpg - 27kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:38


Position 3 at a higher resolution ... top left corner



237a-3 pos 3.jpg - 17kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:41


Position 4 - two indentations in top frame ...



237a-3 pos 4.jpg - 10kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:44


Position 8 - the 'cigarette' flaw ...



237a-3 pos 8.jpg - 11kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:52


A different block of nine, the top three stamps:

Position 1 - obvious flaw above the top frame
Position 2 - no flaws
Position 3 - no flaws - compare to the previous image of position number 3.





237a-1 pos 1 2 3.jpg - 39kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 13:55


Another block of nine, top three stamps:

Position 1 - plate flaw shows significant deterioration
Position 2 - now showing an obvious flaw
Position 3 - no frame indentation ...





237a-2 pos 1 2 3.jpg - 40kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 14:05


Position 4 of the block that shows positions 1-2-3 with the flaw in 1, no flaws in 2 and 3.

Note the deterioration on the indentation at the top right of the frame ...



237a-1 pos 4.jpg - 17kB
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 18:17


Thank you,

This is great.... So, these lines outside of the stamp picture are not a random spots. They show up probably in random positions, on perforate and imperforate stamp, but I really don't know what can cause it. Ideas anyone?

P.S. There is additinal reason to continue digging... For many years in multiple catalogs including Scott and Stanley Gibbons we see listed so called "corrected cliche" variety, but is it really a cliche corrected (replaced) during next printing of sheet with plate #4 of this stamp or it is something else. We started this discussion in Rossica Journal 149 (FlySpecker article), but did not reach any conclusion.
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 18:19


This would be a great idea IF the FlySpecker forum was something more than a one in a blue moon event. Can we make that happen?:question:
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[*] posted on 1/20/2008 at 18:54


Gary,

Postings in all forums presented on a home page are "blue moon events" in your terms. Sorry to break you this news. The only exception (probably) is a General Forum and mainly because people post there because don't see other forums. If you look at General Forum postings - they all (or majority) belong to one of the existing forums, but because they are not visible - people ask questions in General one.
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