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Author: Subject: Warsaw postmarks with delivery part of day
Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:01
Warsaw postmarks with delivery part of day


Postmarks found in several locations within the Polish territory are noted marking an hour that the item was dispatched for delivery, usually in a circle with the letter ch (hour) included.. In St. Petersburg and Moscow, we note many marks with the hour of dispatch as well.

In Warsaw, they also had another system in place. They would include in the postmark if it was a morning (UTRO), daytime (DNEM), or evening (VECHER) event instead of an actual hour in almost all cases.

The picture illustrated here is a composite and we can see the letters in the postmark to the right of the year indicator.

In the nest posting, there is a postmark from Warsaw that I have not seen before and am seeking information about the meaning of the letters used.



allnone.jpg - 81kB
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:06
Postmark with letters in question


The postmark in question is from the Town Post Dispatch Office in 1909. To me it appears that the letters to the right of the year are "PN." Can anyone shed some light on these letters?



PN-1909.jpg - 11kB
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:04


Isn't that the Russian abbreviation for Monday?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 13:10


You may be correct, except that 24 July 1909 was on a Friday. The item was posted in Radom on 23 July.
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ameis33
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 13:36


Did you check the right calendar (Gregorian/Julian)?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 13:52


I used a Julian calendar. An Internet conversion URL says that July 24, 1909, (has to be Gregorian) is on a Saturday.
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ameis33
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 14:03


Late delivery at midnight - полночь?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 14:11


That would fit the letters. But why would the Town Post Dispatch Office be working late at night? Seem to me they should have a central office, probably a different dispatch office, for the arrival of mail after closing hours, but I am still looking for that information. In my head, the Town Post Dispatch Office was tasked with releasing mail for delivery to the addressee during normal business hours.
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ameis33
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 14:18


I don't know in Russia, but in Italy, i've seen more than one letter postmarked the 25 december... I don't really know if it could make any sense. You should also consider an error setting up the device.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 14:21


That could be the case. But what do the letters mean and when should they have been properly used?
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ameis33
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 14:33


I don't know how the device was made, but i think when the device has been built, probably noone took care if something was really needed or not. So, asked to prepare a date stamp with hour indication, the producer would have probably introduced:

morning утро
noon полдень
afternoon днем
evening Вечер
midnight Полночь
night ночь

noon and midnight to be honest, seems to me little bit forced, but not having a better answer, at least let's think to this...
Anyway, errors in datestamps are not infrequents...
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Unhinged
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[*] posted on 5/22/2008 at 17:40


Could PN also be Friday, as in Pyatnitsa?

And, going back to the first post: the cancellation in the upper right reads DN2, if I'm not mistaken. Would this be the second half of the afternoon? If so, when would that cover? Or is it just the second pick-up of the afternoon, as post used to be collected with startling regularity.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/23/2008 at 03:32


My first guess on the DN.2 is that the two possibly refers to an hour. However, we need more samples to evaluate.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/23/2008 at 08:38


Can someone add illustrations that may be different?
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 5/23/2008 at 10:54


Quote:
Originally posted by Unhinged
Could PN also be Friday, as in Pyatnitsa?


The day of the week abbreviations I see on Russian calendars are пн вт ср чт пт сб вс.

The Russian calendar starts on a Monday.

An interesting puzzle.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 5/23/2008 at 15:07


There are many examples of St. Petersburg and Moscow in which the hour or part of the day are used. St. Petersburg has been noted using the letters "U" "D" and "V (I think on this one)." Moscow has used the part of the day as well. Both locations used quire extensively an hour indicator with and without a "ch" for hour.

So, using the words or hours is not unusual for Russian postmarks. Sure would like to see more Warsaw marks that may be different though.:fake sniffle:
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