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Author: Subject: Earliest use of Romanov Jubilee issue
venets
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 01:20
Earliest use of Romanov Jubilee issue


In accordance with the stamp catalogues Romanov Jubilee stamps had been issued on January 1, 1913.
But on January 1 all post office in Russia was closed, and so the first day of issue musy be January 2.
I don't know whether such items are usual but the following card is interesting for me - it has been sent from Warsaw on January 2, 1913.

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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 05:05


Although I do not have a Romanov used on cover, I do have many postmarks fro, 1 January for many years. If the Post Office was closed, then there should not have been any postmarks from 1 January. Perhaps just the selling of stamps was not open on 1 January?
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 08:09


Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Although I do not have a Romanov used on cover, I do have many postmarks fro, 1 January for many years. If the Post Office was closed, then there should not have been any postmarks from 1 January. Perhaps just the selling of stamps was not open on 1 January?


If the first day of issue was Jan. 1, and stamps weren't sold on Jan. 1, there shouldn't be any postmarks from Jan. 1 on such stamps. They wouldn't have been for sale.
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jlechtanski
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 08:54


Interesting.

From the Rev. L. L. Tann Manual:

"The first day of 1913 that the post offices were open, was January 2nd. January 1st 1913 - as Dr. Wortman and others have many times pointed out - was a Wednesday, and a public holiday. Post Offices were closed for counter business. Rare examples of covers are known postmarked Jan. 1st, but new stamps could not be sold on that day. The stamps had already been distributed to post offices ready for Jan, 2nd, when they were officially placed on sale. January 2nd 1913 is thus the First Day of Issue."

I am not sure if Rev. Tann meant that Romanov covers exist postmarked Jan. 1st, or that covers with old stamps exist postmarked Jan. 1st. I assume the latter.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 09:26


Hmmmm I thought 1 January 1913 was on a Tuesday.



1913 calander.jpg - 44kB
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eja1703
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 12:09


1 January 1913 was on a Tuesday after the Julian calendar which Russia used in 1913, after the Gregorian calendar 1 January 1913 was on a Wednesday.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 12:34


Hmmm. If the Julian Calendar was used by the Russians in 1913 and their regulations used the Julian dates, then 1 January 1913 was on a Tuesday. If someone is referring to an old-style Russian date, then should they not use the Julian calendar and indicate they converted the date to the Gregorian calendar? January 1, 1913, did not take place on a Wednesday in Russia. ;)



1-Jan-1913.jpg - 46kB
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GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 20:10


Gary,

I am not a specialist in this area, but... your postcard has ARRIVAL mark from January 1, 1913. Do you have cancelled stamps on covers from January 1st? Is it possible that post offices were open for incoming mail (and some clerk was cancelling them with arrival mark) , but not open for public and therefore there was no outgoing mail (cancelled stamps on cover)
Just a thought...
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[*] posted on 7/24/2008 at 22:11


The postcard really doesn't play any role in the entire discussion, as far as I can tell. We're looking for Romanov issues postmarked from the first. The stamp on this postcard somehow just doesn't strike me as a typical Romanov anniversary issue.
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GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 00:40


You are correct, but if postoffice was closed and the only cancels with January 1, 1913 are arrival cancels, than there should not be ANY stamps including Romanoff issue with January 1 cancellation. In this case (as I read many times) January 2 is a first date of cancellation for this issue.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 04:23


Greg, we'll make a postal historian out of you yet.;)

The post offices at least in the major cities worked 24/7. Trains brought mail into the cities and took mail away. Mail was delivered to and picked up from one of the dispatch offices. Although the sales counters may have been closed for business on holidays, the main post offices continued to work. Mail came in and mail left. Mail was supposed to be datestamped at every processing point on its trip and we note this in the pre-189x mail frequently. Mail that was shipped in mail bags will not necessarily have these marks and the path traveled becomes more difficult to recreate.

Once the dispatch office had sorted, logged, etc. the incoming mail, it would be sent to the appropriate town office for delivery. There may or may not be an associated arrival mark and subsequent dispatch mark for delivery. However, there should be a dispatch mark for all mail leaving the cities even though it may only be a mark canceling the stamp.

The example shown above, although it is not a Romanov stamp, indicates that Moscow's 22 city office dispatched the postcard for delivery to the addressee on 1 January 1913 at 3 o'clock. These postmarks were applied just before the postman was sent out to deliver the mail. It is not an arrival mark. In general, postmarks with hour plugs are normally associated with internal city postal activity.

Below is an example of a cover sent from Moscow to St. Petersburg in 1871 via the Nikolaevsk railway on 1 January.




1-January-1871-back.jpg - 41kB
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 04:24
postcard to Prague


Below is a postcard sent to Prague from Moscow on 1 January 1899. It was posted at a city post office on 1 January and dispatched by the 4th DO on 1 January.



1-January-1899-on-stamp.jpg - 47kB
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 04:25
Postcard to Germany


Below is a postcard sent to Germany on 1 January 1902. It was posted at a city post office on 1 January and dispatched by the 4th DO on 2 January.



1-January-1902-on-stamp.jpg - 67kB
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 04:26
Internal Warsaw


Below is an internal Warsaw item from 1 January 1883.



1-Jan-1883.jpg - 57kB
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 04:27
Warsaw arrival


Below is a card showing a Warsaw arrival mark of 1 January 1880.





1-Jan-1880.jpg - 75kB
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 09:47


To return to venets' original post, does anyone have a Romanov issue postmarked earlier than Jan. 2, '13? Or at an earlier time than on the post card shown above?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 10:06


In the Post Rider issue #27, November 1990, pp 4-5, Tann illustrates an item from 30 December 1912.
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 15:12


Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
In the Post Rider issue #27, November 1990, pp 4-5, Tann illustrates an item from 30 December 1912.


Now that's interesting. I take it this must have been a "courtesy" cancel?

Are there any instances of a legitimate postmark from Jan. 1?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 15:18


The article is worth reading. The cancel may be legitimate according to the author.
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[*] posted on 7/25/2008 at 19:13


Sadly, I don't have access to the article. It would be interesting to learn how a cancel could be legitimate two days before the stamp officially existed.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/26/2008 at 03:07


Not a problem. Our Librarian can send you a copy.
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RSFSR
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[*] posted on 7/26/2008 at 22:17


Wouldn't this discussion be more appropriate in the Postal History area?
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/27/2008 at 03:53


Ged, I agree. If Mr. Venets agrees, we can ask Jeff to move it to the PH area.
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venets
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[*] posted on 7/28/2008 at 01:59


Quote:
Исходное сообщение добавлено Gary
Ged, I agree. If Mr. Venets agrees, we can ask Jeff to move it to the PH area.

OK, that will be good solution.
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Bill Stoten
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[*] posted on 7/29/2008 at 07:52


Somewhere in the dim and distant corners of my memory I seem to remember reading that Imperial Russian Post Office counter clerks only advanced the date stamps forward at 12 noon. I can't remember if this was a regulation or a hypothesis.... but...... if it wasn't a hypothesis (or a dream) then you could get a 1/1/13 strike... and early bird etc.. etc..
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