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Author: Subject: Need a good image of "COCEM" variety (Scott 28c)
GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 2/22/2003 at 17:47
Need a good image of "COCEM" variety (Scott 28c)


I need an good zoomed image of "COCEM" variety of 8 kop stamp on horiz laid paper without thunderbolts (Scott 28c). I got one used copy from the auction and hope to compare mine with somebody stamp. See attached image. Does it look right or this is an altered regular copy?

28cCOCEM.jpg - 27kB




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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 2/22/2003 at 18:54
Another copy


Greg;

This is the only "COCEM" stamp that passed through my hands. To the best of my k_nowledge current owner submitted it for expertization. I do _not k_now if he has received any opinion yet.



Your stamp looks somewhat CLOSER to "B" altered. But even "my" stamp was questioned by the buyer
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GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 2/22/2003 at 19:13


Here we are... They all look different...
May be somebody has expertised copy?




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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 2/26/2003 at 14:30
They all are bad.


Looks like all three stamps posted here so far are NOT SCOTT 28c. Reasons for that opinion:
1: The stamp I posted (and I think it's the one CLOSEST to "C" of the three stamps posted) was certified by APS expertization service as SCOTT #28, _not #28c.
2: The picture given in Soloviev catalog (see below) shows rounded "C", _not square "C" like on the stamps we're dealing with.



Is it the final word? I do _not k_now - yet. Picture of that variety in Lobachevsky looks very close to square "C", but the pictures in that original Russian publications are _not good e_nough to say a definite "yes" or "_no". So we're still looking for more information.
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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 3/6/2003 at 07:21
Who the experts are?


I'm _not sure I'm at freedom to reveal experts names, it was _not me who submitted the stamp to APS. But one of two experts is a VERY competent specialist in Russian stamps, Rossica member and for ME his opinion is as convincing as any expert opinion can be.

I also received a scan of that stamp from a_nother source. It's very small and I couln't enlarge it without loosing clarity, but I think it's still visible that it's round, _not square "C" and it's exactly like on Soloviev's PICTURE - slightly lower than the other characters.

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Gary
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[*] posted on 3/14/2003 at 18:14
Ah yes!


As we struggle to determine who among us or outside the group has the expertise that we can use, secrecy appears to remain for some. Pity. I had so hoped we could get over that barrier.

If a person truly believes that another person has the requisite skill set to render an opinion that can stand the test of scrutiny, perhaps we should all agree or disagree? But then, maybe I am wrong.

I do know of one seller who offers certificates upon request, who also recently tried to sell a bogus item. I would mention the name, but then I'd have to shoot you. Remember, a sale is a sale is a sale.
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 3/22/2003 at 17:29
Few notes


First of all - please see an image of so called "cocem" variety I posted on "samovar"

Here are some notes:

Cliché of this stamp was not broken completely at the same time –
it starts to broke from the middle of letter "B" so with the background
printed darker you can see deformed number "8".

Later it became to be deformed number "0".

The last variety you can find is letter "C".

I think after that cliché was replaced or repaired

COCEM.JPG - 5kB
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kiompie
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[*] posted on 5/24/2003 at 19:15
Just another example


I cannot add much to the discussion, but since a few people showed theirs I thought it would be nice to show mine :D




cocem.jpg - 31kB




GvT
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 3/14/2004 at 19:30
"COCEM" on cover


Few more images of "COCEM" variety.
Detail view:
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 3/14/2004 at 19:30


Full cover:
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Rusalka
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[*] posted on 3/14/2004 at 23:07


Andrey could you please blow up your first image of the stamp? I can't see the detail properly. Thanks

:cool:
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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 3/14/2004 at 23:11
Not square, but round


I thought we exhausted that topic. Back when we started it I think the conclusion was that all SQUARE "C"s are bad "C"s, and it should be a normal round one. I do not have any to show and the one sent to me as a benchmark is too small, but still, I hope, gives some idea what a GOOD "C" is.
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Gary
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[*] posted on 3/16/2004 at 18:15


I agree with oldteddy.

I suspect, but of course cannot prove it, that the motive quite often for items on the Samovar is to seek approval that this item or these items is/are genuine for resale purposes. That does happen a lot and sadly we sometimes support it rather than the hobby itself and the presentation of knowledge.

OK. Shoot me!

:(:(
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