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Author: Subject: Reperforated stamps
Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 06:34
Reperforated stamps


I'm opening a new discussion: re-perforated stamps.

Can we consider it forgery or repaired stamps?

Here is one example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=297937505...


I consider this stamp (Scott 287. perf. 14.5) to be re-perforated from its cheap brother (Scott 287a).

Here is an image:

2979375053.jpg - 19kB
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Jeff
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 09:15


Andrey, why do you consider this a reperf? I've tried to put a perf gauge on a number of stamps that fit somewhere in between a number of perf varieties, but never really considered them being reperfs. Is there something about this stamp that makes you think it has been altered?

Thanks,

Jeff
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MICHAEL MACKENZIE
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 09:20


Altering a stamp to defraud the buyer constitutes a Forgery.

A repaired stamp returns the stamp to its original state.

Perforating a normally imperf stamp with the intent to sell it as an original perforated stamp follows the first description.
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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 09:22
Good question


Jeff; I second. I've already had a chance to post on this board a suggestion that it's not enough to post a stamp (or postmark or whatever) and say: "It's a fake" (or reperf or whatever), it's important to EXPLAIN why the person posted it thinks it's a fake, as detailed as possible. Not everybody has SO EXPERIENCED EYE to see what an expert sees. So it's important to EDUCATE, not only to inform... In this case TO EXPLAIN how Andrey determined that it's a reperf (just from looking at the screen image, as I understand) would be much help...
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 09:55


Well, lets start some education....

Back to the stamp in question.

1st, when any stamp had been re-perforated it become to be smaller in size. When you will compare this stamp to genuine 287 or 287a it will be smaller horizontally and vertically, especially horizontally both margins are narrow).
(In some cases the image can be downloaded and compared to the image of genuine stamps).

2nd and most important, the type of perforation on those stamps were harrow 14:14,5. Take a look at all corners - it is not what is suppose to be. Holes are not aligned. (see genuine stamp image down below)

3rd, almost all of those stamps (and it is why mint copies are such valuable) were postally used in 1925. Take a look at the cancel. Is it 1927? A bit late for this stamp to be postally used.

0.JPG - 10kB
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 12:15


Continue education....

Another stamp I considered to be re-perforated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=297943027...

This time it is privately re-perforated from its imperforated (much less valuable) version.

Why?

Here is simple answer.
All perf. 12.5 & 13.5 stamps were issued in 1925 without background.
All imperf. stamps were issued in 1926 with light blue background (take a look at Lenin's face - it has to be white on genuine ones and light blue on fakes ones). There is also light blue background visible on all margins.

2979430279.jpg - 15kB
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 12:18


Here is comparison image of all 4 genuine stamps:
Imperforated,
perf 13.5,
perf. 12,5 and
perf. 10.5

2979430279_1.JPG - 84kB
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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 12:39
Perforation type


I think at least one thing can be added to Andrey's brilliant analysis of the reperf LIMONKA - the genuine one has what is called COMB PERFORATION in which case the corners where horisonatl and vertical perforations meet are usually very neat. Look at the corners of that ebay stamp - it IS NOT COMB PEREFORATION. Compare it with the good one posted by Andrey.
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 17:42


This seller has a history of questionable material as well. Perhaps that is the first clue?

Andrew's analysis would apply to any stamp and not just the lemonka.
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[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 20:35


oldteddy !
Correction: Those stamps have harrow type of perforation not combined.

But as I said and you wrote in different words there - all corners where horisontal and vertical perforations:
1. meet are usually very neat (combined perf.).
2. made are neat (harrow perf.)

That is the difference - harrow perf. all lines of perforation made at the same time !!!

Combined perf. (Russian - "grebenka";) - 3 sides of the stamps in one row perforated, then perf. machinery shifted to the next row of stamps and then 2 row perforated on 3 sides and so on.
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/13/2004 at 15:37


Looks like our "Samovar" works - bid was placed on the 1st item in this tread and lately removed.
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/15/2004 at 19:50


Interesting arithmetic......

Imperforated 10 rub. stamps can be bought for $15.00-$25.00 in mint never hinged original gum condition.

To "make" professionally looking perforation one needs to spent another $10.00-$15.00.

And now not very well knowledgeable novice collector will spend $150.00 for it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=297943027...
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[*] posted on 1/16/2004 at 06:43
GREBENKA


My RUSSO-ENGLISH-FRENCH-GERMAN philatelic dictionary translates GREBENCHATAYA ZUBTSOVKA as COMB PERFORATION, but as long as we're talking about the same type of perforation - it doesn't matter. So looks like it's not the best dictionary in the world, but we came to the same conclusion about the corners - they are from the WRONG perforation.
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[*] posted on 1/16/2004 at 18:02


What do the English language catalogs call it, if anything?
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MICHAEL MACKENZIE
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[*] posted on 1/16/2004 at 19:16


Stroke: Holes/perforations on all four corners are even.

Line: Holes/perforations on all four corners are uneven.

Scott Specialized Catalog of US Stamps and Covers, 2004.
Would you like the page number?
Or should I scan it and post it?
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[*] posted on 1/16/2004 at 20:05


Ha Ha! I think we do use other terms?! If you do not know what they are, do not respond.
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MICHAEL MACKENZIE
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[*] posted on 1/17/2004 at 00:11


Gary, I hope you didn't think I was joking.
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[*] posted on 1/18/2004 at 14:42


And what shall we call imperf stamps made from perf stamps? Fakes, forgeries, counterfeits or Trash?
;););););)
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Andrey
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[*] posted on 1/18/2004 at 20:47


Trimmed trash, I think
;);););););););););):D:P
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[*] posted on 1/19/2004 at 14:20


And the nice person who is trying to build a good Russian collection bought this forgery "303a" at $212.50.
I'm sorry for you Michael !!!

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
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[*] posted on 1/19/2004 at 14:22


And the 1st stamp in this tread - "LIMONKA" closed without any bids.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
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[*] posted on 1/20/2004 at 06:56
About perforation - again


To Michael;

I'm VERY sorry to argue with such an outstanding authority as SCOTT catalog, but there are TWO types of perforation that make even corners. Let me DESCRIBE them and give RUSSIAN and ENGLISH terms for them TO THE BEST OF my knowledge:

1: Line (LINEYNAYA) perforation - perforation is done first in one direction (horisontal or vertical) and then in another. It makes corners of UNPREDICATBLE shape - uneaven more often than even.
2: Comb (GREBENCHATAYA) perforation - is being done with a device which has pins arranged as one horisontal line and many short vertical lines - like a COMB. That device makes perforation ONE ROW AT A TIME ON THREE SIDES and then moves down one row. It leaves TOP corners even and neat and lower corners not so even, but much better than LINE perforation.
3: Harrow - or "stroke" in Scott terminology (RAMOCHNAYA) perforation - made for the whole sheet at once, with one stroke of the device. Leaves ALL corners even and neat.

I do not know about US stamps, but MANY Russian stamps, especially of the early period (before 1960) are made with COMB perforation - and it always stated in Russian catalogs, even general ones.
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MICHAEL MACKENZIE
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[*] posted on 1/20/2004 at 09:50


READ GARY'S QUESTION OLDTEDDY!
I only answered it, passing no judgement as to the accuracy of the information.

If you want an argument: WRITE THE EDITORS OF SCOTT, not me!
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[*] posted on 1/20/2004 at 11:03
I've got it!


Thank you, Michael.
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