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Author: Subject: Certificates: Bottom line...
GregMirsky
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[*] posted on 6/25/2004 at 00:42
Certificates: Bottom line...


We are talking back and forth about certificates, what information should be there or not, but I think bottom line is very simple: certificate expresses opinion and does not guarantee anything.

If you trust the person or group of people issuing certificate - it worth something. If not - the value of this certificate equals the value of the paper it was printed on.

If this person has recognized name in philatelic community as knowledgeable in certain area of philately - certificate has value. I would trust certificate issued by professional dealer as well as issued by collector IF I TRUST THIS PERSON OPINION AND CONSIDER HIM AN EXPERT. As an expert person will describe item, mention about any faults, condition, etc. as a part of certification process. Trust me, if I see certificate first and later discover that item has hidden or undescribed faults - I would not consider this person an expert anymore and would not trust his certification in a future. Period.
I 've seen in people's collections certificates issued by entities absolutely unknown to me. Should I trust this certificate? I don't think so... Does it add value to the item if seller shows me a piece of paper signed by person I never heard of? I don't think so...

My regular 2 cents...




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oldteddy
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[*] posted on 6/25/2004 at 05:06
Back to the original question


I'd like to follow up Greg's very clear and to the point opinion. But I'd like to return to the original question - HOW SHOULD WE TREAT CERTIFICATES ISSUED BY THE SELLERS OF PHILATELIC ITEMS.

Each buy/sell transaction involves two parties - the seller and the buyer. Some sellers are more knowledgable - some less, some more trustworthy - some less. The buyers also have different level of knowledge. But I'd say that ALL sellers are somewhat suspect BY THE NATURE of the selling business. Here comes THE EXPERT - the third party SUPPOSEDLY having no financial interest in the transaction. Both - the seller and the buyer - should trust that third party, its expertizing capacity and its integrity as an objective judge. What if the seller issues a certificate? Then that balanced triangle is broken. The seller issuing a certificate it's like a suspect being his/her own judge or a juror - a nonsense.

I think sellers should describe their items honestly, without trying to "omit" any problems, and to the best of their knowledge and it's up to buyers to seek expertization AS THE THIRD PARTY'S OPINION. If the seller wants to call his/her DESCRIPTION a CERTIFICATE - fine, for me it doesn't add anything to the description, and thus to the value of the item. I usually remember (or record) from whom I bought this or that item and if I want to sell it - I would MAY be mention the fact that it's bought from such-and-such seller. In this case seller's certificate would support my reference, that's it.
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Rusalka
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[*] posted on 6/26/2004 at 02:50


At least we all agree that a third neutral (independent) party is the ideal person to issue an Expertizing Certificate.

Old Teddy it is always a bonus if the seller can offer a Certificate to attest the Provenance of a stamp or collection which illustrates the history of successive custody. Such a Certificate provides certainty about the item - in that it is genuine and equally it provides an elegant history of all the previous owners.
~;)~
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igorfmyask
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[*] posted on 7/19/2004 at 19:49


Dear fellow collectors,

I was trying to find standard procedures that every expert MUST follow during a stamp expertizing but could not. It means that currently we are depending on individual opinion of a person who either calls himself expert or a member of some organization of group of experts. Some of them are really great experts like Z. Mikulski and Dr. Ceresa but some of them not. New technologies brought a lot of forgeries that extremely hard to recognize. Let's create a methodology of stamp expertizing first. Please let me know if you are interested.

Thank you,
Igor
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Gary
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[*] posted on 7/20/2004 at 18:04
Expertization


I think this is a topic worth discussing, but under a new thread.
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