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Gary
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Provincial (Kontoras)
We have seen one from Minsk. How many others can we illustrate?
Here is one from Vladimir guberniya.
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Gary
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Revel' gub. pocht. kont.
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Gary
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Warsaw gub. P. K.
1st Dispatch Office
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Gary
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Novgorod gub. pocht. tel. kont.
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Gary
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Tver' gub. pocht. kont.
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Gary
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Zhitomir gub. pocht. kon.
Additionally, there is a Minsk gub. poicht. kont. mark
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eja1703
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Mogilev Gubernia
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Alep
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Tver Gub.
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Gary
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Alep, thanks for Tver' Is it possible to get a better picture?
Thanks
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oldteddy
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Abbreviation
It's all very nice, but...
ГУБ. after a city name does NOT stand for ГУБЕРНИЯ. It's not a noun but rather an
adjective and it's not ВЛАДИМИР ГУБЕРНИЯ but
ВЛАДИМИР ГУБЕРНСКИЙ, it means that it's in
that ГУБЕРНИЯ [there are other ВЛАДИМИРs, in other
ГУБЕРНИЯs] and that it's the central city of that
ГУБЕРНИЯ.
This tradition continued during after-imperial time but instead of ГУБ. abbreviation ОБЛ. [for
ОБЛАСТНОЙ or ОБЛАСТНАЯ or
ОБЛАСТНОЕ, depending on the city name] was and is being used.
ГУБ. in front of ПОЧТ.КОНТ. is also not
ГУБЕРНИЯ but ГУБЕРНСКАЯ, but may be it's
too much of Russian grammer for one comment...
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Gary
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So, are we saying there was no such thing as a "regional" kontora servicing several smaller otdelenies?
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Alep
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I am still not an expert in scanning, so I hardly know, how to make a better pictire (perhaps, a higher resolution?). Anyway, I guess it is the
postmark of importance, so I scanned it separately.
Besides, there are mixed two different subjects in these pictures. The older, single-ring postmarks belong to the gubernia post/telegraph offices,
i.e. a special kind of P/TOs located in the province centers. This division was abolished, hoever, at the end of the XIXth century (I do not remember
the precise year, probably it was 1889 but I may be in error). In the period when the bridge-type pmks were used, the P/TOs differed only by the
class: down from the 1st to the 5th, and those in the provincial centers were not necessarily of the 1st class. However, I do not quite understand,
why there is added "GUB." after the town name. It could be because of existence of other towns with the same name: e.g. there was also Minsk in Warsaw
province, there was Vladimir Volynski but I never heard of another Tver!
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Gary
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Alep, you are correct. There may be two or more subjects here. I am trying to get responses from all collectors with any knowledge on this subject as
a way of presenting another aspect of postal history collecting.
I know of only one Revel' and it is not a provincial seat, but in Ehstlyand Guberniya. I also know of only one Varshava and it is a provincial seat.
So, oldteddy's theory is not all that solid.
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angara
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Likewise, Zhitomir was apparently not the head of a province, being in Volinsk Guberniya. It is curious that, as with Revel, the name of the
guberniya also does not appear in this postmark’s inscription. Apart from these two exceptions, could it be that when the abbreviation GUB. appears
before the "POCHT.KONT" etc., it indicates the head of a guberniya, for example IRKUTSK GUB. POCHT. KONT., but when it appears after the name of the
place and the name of the guberniya, for example ZIMINSKOE IRKUTSK GUB., it indicates the guberniya in which the town was located?
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Alep
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No, all is just as it should be. Revel was the head of Estlyand province, Zhitomir the head of Volyn province: merely not all provinces were named
according to its head. I stress once more that when these one-circle postmarks were used, the post/telegraph offices of the gubernia centers were
called Gubernskay being the head p/t offices in the particualr gubernia. However, this was not the case later when the double-ring postmarks were
used, since gubernia p/t offices existed no more. Yes, the name of gubernia after the place name points to its being in the particular gubernia. The
abbreviation GUB. after the town name means GUBERNSKI, i.e. that is the head of gubernia but in most cases such abbreviation is missing being
unnecessary.
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jlechtanski
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Kostroma Oblastnoi
Here is an example from present-day Russia with Kostroma Oblastnoi (КОСТРОМА
ОБЛАСТНОЙ) completely spelled out as part of a Soviet-era (СССР)
postmark..
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Gary
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Interesting to note that the 1881 "spisok pochtovikh uchrezhdenii" has a few interesting entries.
For example, on Revel' it says:
Province town
Ehstlyand province
kakogo roda pochtoviya uchrezhdeniya = Gub. kon. 1 kl. (Otd. B.)
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jlechtanski
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Voronezh Gub.
Below is a postcard from 1911 with a ВОРОНЕЖЪ ГУБ. postmark.
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Gary
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Registered wrapper from Saratov
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jlechtanski
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Varshavsk. Gub.
Below is a postal card from 1895 with a postmark containing Varshavsk. Gub (ВАРШАВСК.
ГУБ.) at the bottom. I take it as an example of Varshavskaya Guberniya
(ВАРШАВСКАЯ ГУБЕРНІЯ). Warsaw is the
adjective; Guberniya is the noun. Or maybe it is also an adjective – ГУБЕРНСКАЯ.
This is the first time we have seen the city name as an adjective in front of GUB. Perhaps oldteddy would be kind enough to give us another short
grammar lesson. I think that would be key to our understanding of what these postmarks signify.
Unfortunately the town is unclear. I can only make out П. С. (Почтовая
Станція, Postal Station).
The unclear year date is confirmed as 1895 by the handwritten date in the “Lowncinnk near Osieciny 19.6.95” on the reverse. The postmark may be from
Osentsiny in Neshava uezd which had a PO at the time.
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jlechtanski
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Closeup of Postmark on Stamp
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jlechtanski
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Closeup of other Postmark
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Gary
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Wish I could see more of the name across the top. On the surface, this appears to not be like the others in this thread. Rather one from a location
within the province, which is different. Is there anything on the back in the text that might help identify the origin?
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jlechtanski
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Only the location and date handwritten on the reverse make me think it is Osentsiny.
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jlechtanski
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Below are receiving postmarks of Minsk Gub 1925 and Mogilev Gub. 1924 on bank cards of the early Soviet period.
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