The Samovar

Chainbreaker blue???

oldteddy - 2/15/2008 at 23:19

Is the right stamp a blue variety or if not - could anybody show a true one?

Chainbreaker-blue.jpg - 90kB

RSFSR - 2/16/2008 at 08:21

The stamp on the left is the 'blue' variety. These are not that common.

oldteddy - 2/16/2008 at 09:33

Thanks. Now I see.

igorfmyask - 2/16/2008 at 18:19

Originally posted by oldteddy
Is the right stamp a blue variety or if not - could anybody show a true one?

The right stamp is a forgery because the artist initials (letters R and Z) above "KOP" are missing.

Igor Myaskovsky

Gary - 2/16/2008 at 18:34

What is your source for this information?

igorfmyask - 2/16/2008 at 20:07

This forgery is described by Y.M. Vovin in his book on Russian forgeries. I am sure you can find it in Dr. Ceresa Handbook (Vol. 5).

GregMirsky - 2/18/2008 at 01:28

It is definitely a forgery. This type of forgery presented in Dr. Ceresa book, Vol.5 RSFSR, Section A, Parts 1-5, page 112. "Second Forgery of 35 kop."

Now, example that Vovin presented in his book (1972) and Ray Ceresa showed in RSFSR book (1996) (see reference above) as a "First forgery of 35 kop" probably is a different forgery. It is hard to judge, because Dr .Ceresa uses illustration from Vovin book (with reference of cause). It is the same copy of the stamp.

GregMirsky - 2/21/2008 at 19:45


Is it possible to post high res scan (1200 dpi?) of the small area with two triangles right above "KOP" on the stamp that we considering as a candidate to be "forgery" based on your scan.
I want to see if "P" and "3" initials are really missing on this specific stamp or it is just heavily overinked copy (which is another possibility)


oldteddy - 2/21/2008 at 21:51

Yes, it's really missing those initials and if to look from the front it's a very crude litho (look at the broken thin frames around the numbers and around KOP) though there are some indentations on the gum side.

The stamp belongs to Dr. Ray Ceresa and it came to me by mistake and I'll be returning it to him.

I was first attracted by its light color and even didn't try to look at it under a magnifying glass and only after the fake possibility was introduced into the discussion I examined it under magnification. It's not just crude, it's ugly.

I scanned it at the highest resolution my scanner allows (1200 dpi) and show a fragment. The whole image is too big to show it here.

Chainbreaker-35-fake-d.jpg - 20kB