The Samovar

13 & 17 th issues.

abelikow - 5/20/2010 at 16:55

I have troubles to identify the 1,2,3,5 & 7 kop values of the 13 & 17 issue stamps.( till and from 1905). According with the catalogues the backround changed, specially on corners. But no one give a good picture to recognize it. Can anybody help me with a good scan and explanation to difference one issue from another?Or may be its a Rossica article about it, I couldn't find it
Thank you !

David Jay - 5/23/2010 at 20:53

According to the Lobachevskii catalog, the 13th issue includes the 1,2,3,5,7kopek of 1902-1905. The 17th issue would be the 5&10Ruble issue of 1906. The succeeding issue of 1909-1910 features mostly re-designed stamps, which are easy to tell from the 1902-1905 issue by the design. So I assume you must mean the stamps of 1889-1902 (12th issue) from the 1902-1905 issues. The designs are the same (though I do recall a minor change in the corners of the ones with circles with value in the corners that would have occurred about this time).
The paper is different -- horizontal laid lines+watermark for 1889 vs. vertical laid lines +watermark for 1902-1905. This is usually easy to determine from the front (even on cover) using a bright light at a glancing light. With a lense, you can often pick up the weave of the paper at a smaller scale, along with the laid lines. If the cover is quite worn or the stamp scuffed, then it can be difficult to tell the difference. You shouldn't need details of the background
to identify the stamps, except for the 10k with inverted background of the 1902-1905 issue.

jlechtanski - 5/24/2010 at 16:58

That is indeed how Lobachevsky numbered the issues, but Zagorsky (and apparently other Russian catalogs) insert the 1, 2, 3, 5 and 7k with modified backgrounds as the 17th issue.

I don't know what Russian catalogs were referred to, but Zagorsky does illustrate the change in background.

I don't know if you can differentiate perfectly aligned stamps, but you can see the difference when the background is shifted in relation to the frame.

I'll find some shifted examples and scan them.

jlechtanski - 5/25/2010 at 21:18

The pre-1905 background is on the left and the post-1905 background is on the right. The backgrounds are shifted upwards in relation to the frame.

You can see the solid blue of the corners on the left stamp above the frame at the top and in the top corner circles. They are missing on the right stamp.

You can also see the solid blue of the corners on the left stamp above the bottom corner circles and within these circles. Such blue is missing on the right stamp.

1905 Backgrounds.jpg - 415kB

Russian "nicknames"

oldteddy - 5/26/2010 at 07:50

It might make it easier to remember which one is which using Russian nicknames for those two kinds of backgrounds "с уголками" ['with corners"] for earlier issue (whatever the number) and "без уголков" ["without corners"] for later issue. And it's a very good question - how to deal with well-aligned stamps, when those corners are not visible. What might help in those cases is that those issues differ (albeit not much) by perforations: earlier issue ("with corners") is 14:14 and later issue ("without corners") is 14:14.

abelikow - 5/26/2010 at 17:52

Thank you all for your help!!! I agree that its not easy to recognize when the print is aligned, need to measure the perforation. Now, back to work with this issues... Thank again!!!