The Samovar
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: 1922 consular air mail issue
iceserpent
Czarist
**




Posts: 40
Registered: 6/27/2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood.

[*] posted on 1/11/2004 at 19:15
1922 consular air mail issue


Does anybody know if there's any literature available on the subject? Especaially regarding determination of kosher/fake overprints?

Thanks.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
oldteddy
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 237
Registered: 12/31/2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Perplexed

[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 08:42
Comparison


I found that the best way for us non-experts to determine fakes is to compare suspects (and they all are) with genuine stamps. I happened to have three of those stamps expertised by Mikulsky (and it was REAL Mikulsky, I sent stamps to him myself) with OTHER ones.

I remember last year some dealer from NY state was selling on eBay tons of those stamps and even looking at the images on the screen and comparing them with MY stamps it was rather easy to see the difference in overprints.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MICHAEL MACKENZIE
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 231
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ok

[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 10:05


That doesn't work when there are differences between authentic overprints.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
iceserpent
Czarist
**




Posts: 40
Registered: 6/27/2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood.

[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 19:54
Here's the suspect





Overprint is typographic, seems to be type I from Dr. Ceresa's handbook ("RSFSR" is 32.5 mm long, "C" with medium gap.

Any ideas?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Andrey
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 98
Registered: 3/17/2003
Location: New York
Member Is Offline

Mood: What is Mood?

[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 23:23


Looks like a forgery overprint to me...:D
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
GregMirsky
Rossica Librarian
*********




Posts: 244
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: Palo Alto,CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Still Optimistic...

[*] posted on 1/12/2004 at 23:53


Looks like a fake to me too...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
iceserpent
Czarist
**




Posts: 40
Registered: 6/27/2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood.

[*] posted on 1/13/2004 at 00:20


Can anybody post a scan of a known good one?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
oldteddy
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 237
Registered: 12/31/2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Perplexed

[*] posted on 1/14/2004 at 06:03
Here is one


Compare shape of characters in the overprint, dots in particular, and please note that ink is thicker and darker along the perimeter of each character (typo).

cons-24-III.jpg - 47kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
oldteddy
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 237
Registered: 12/31/2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Perplexed

[*] posted on 1/14/2004 at 06:04
And another




cons-120-IIa.jpg - 51kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
iceserpent
Czarist
**




Posts: 40
Registered: 6/27/2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood.

[*] posted on 1/14/2004 at 19:40


Thanks for all the responses, although I'm still not entirely clear about the issue... :(
I understand that there is nothing in print on this particular subject?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GregMirsky
Rossica Librarian
*********




Posts: 244
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: Palo Alto,CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Still Optimistic...

[*] posted on 1/15/2004 at 02:29


Actually there is a Bleckman's article in English translated by David Skipton in Rossica 96/97 from 1979 and also multiple articles published in Filatelia SSSR, Soviet Collectioner, etc., but all of them in Russian. It is a very popular subject.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GregMirsky
Rossica Librarian
*********




Posts: 244
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: Palo Alto,CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Still Optimistic...

[*] posted on 1/15/2004 at 02:33


One more addition to the same subject:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3495&...

Look how different color of the ink of the overprint?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gary
Deceased
****




Posts: 1626
Registered: 10/18/2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1/15/2004 at 03:59


Any material from this seller, especially overprints, should be considered dubious.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
iceserpent
Czarist
**




Posts: 40
Registered: 6/27/2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood.

[*] posted on 1/15/2004 at 19:53


Material being in russian is not a problem, on the other hand hunting down appropriate magazines is...I was hoping for something like a book on the subject.

P.S. Gary, is it possible to order select articles from Rossica journal in electronic form (pdf)?

P.P.S. I wonder that people still buying from that seller at all...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gary
Deceased
****




Posts: 1626
Registered: 10/18/2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1/16/2004 at 04:20


Please send Ged an email with the question about the library.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MICHAEL MACKENZIE
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 231
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ok

[*] posted on 1/19/2004 at 09:56


Is this the correct general information concerning these stamps?
3 major types of those overprints and two sub-types:

Type I: Letters "S" in "R.S.F.S.R." line have medium gap, length of
"R.S.F.S.R." is 32.5 mm (positions 1, 2, 6, 7, 12, 17, 19, 21, 22, 24 in the
pane).

Sub-type I: Same as type I, but length of "R.S.F.S.R." is 33.5 mm (positions
9, and 14 in the pane).

Type II: Letters "S" in "R.S.F.S.R." line have very small gap, length of
"R.S.F.S.R." is 33.5 mm (positions 3, 4, 8, 11, 16, 18, 23 in the pane).

Sub-type II: Same as type II, but length of "R.S.F.S.R." is 33.0 mm
(position
13 in the pane).

Type III: Letters "S" in "R.S.F.S.R." line have very large gap, length of
"R.S.F.S.R." is 29.0 mm (positions 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 in the pane).

The following varieties are known:

12 germ. m on 2r 25k stamp
inverted overprint, type I
just "germ" inverted, type ???
inverted overprint, sub-type I
inverted overprint, type II
inverted overprint, sub-type II
inverted overprint, type III
12 germ. m on 3r stamp
just "germ" inverted, type ???
24 germ. m on 3r stamp
inverted overprint, type I
just "germ" inverted, type ???
inverted overprint, sub-type I
just "24 germ. marok" inverted, type ???
inverted overprint, type II
inverted overprint, sub-type II
inverted overprint, type III
120 germ. m on 2r 25k stamp
none
600 germ m on 3r stamp
none
1200 germ m on 10k stamp
none
1200 germ m on 50k stamp
none
1200 germ m on 2r 25k stamp
just "germ" inverted, type ???
1200 germ m on 3r stamp
none
View user's profile View All Posts By User
mvarfolo
Czarist
**




Posts: 26
Registered: 3/7/2007
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Zen

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 17:44


Hope you don't mind me resurrecting this subject. Here's my dilemma - I have what I think might be a good Michel 1F (type V 29mm) variety - 12 marks on 3r instead of 2.25 which I don't really need and was thinking about auctioning off.
Obviously need a solid certificate to sell to anything that could be 9000 euros catalog.
The earlier post above refers to Philatelic foundation certificates being not very credible?? I was thinking about using their service.

Can anyone suggest some other really credible expert on consular stamps? Or just go through APS?

Any advice would be helpful.

Mikhail
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gary
Deceased
****




Posts: 1626
Registered: 10/18/2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 17:47


And can we have a picture for evaluation?

"The post below refers to Philatelic foundation certificates being not very credible?? I was thinking about using their service. " ?????
View user's profile View All Posts By User
mvarfolo
Czarist
**




Posts: 26
Registered: 3/7/2007
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Zen

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 18:04


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Ceremuga
A few comments:

It is a very dangerous issue ...

The result is that many of the stamps on the market with positive certificates from experts or expert committees are not genuine - I have recently seen bad ones with certs from Diena & from the Philatelic Foundation.


I was referring to this opinion.
I'll try to make a decent scan.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
RSFSR
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 130
Registered: 9/21/2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 19:19


Just a correction to Gary's response ...

Please contact Greg Mirsky ... he is the current Rossica Librarian. I (Ged) retired from this position ...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tedim2
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 90
Registered: 7/28/2006
Location: The South, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Volkodav

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 19:41


I can only think of Paul at Cherrystone who can give a good opinion and cert.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
mvarfolo
Czarist
**




Posts: 26
Registered: 3/7/2007
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Zen

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 20:18


Thanks!
Well, may be I can get the consensus here from wiser folks on Samovar forum.
Not being a specialist in these issues at all, I've seen enough variety to simply give up having any opinion on it. I sure love to read yours. Many thanks in advance.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tedim2
Major Philatelist
***




Posts: 90
Registered: 7/28/2006
Location: The South, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Volkodav

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 20:36


Reference copy/scan.
Stamp is genuine from Cherrystone.

2300.jpg - 59kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
mvarfolo
Czarist
**




Posts: 26
Registered: 3/7/2007
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Zen

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 20:50


Ted, thank you! Mi 6 , type III (or IV!?). Nice but... Oh well, I'm in NYC often, so stopping by their place on 57th St. isn't much of a problem.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GregMirsky
Rossica Librarian
*********




Posts: 244
Registered: 11/2/2002
Location: Palo Alto,CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Still Optimistic...

[*] posted on 4/7/2007 at 21:59


I suggest - if you interested to auction it - Cherrystone Auctions may be a good choice anyway. Show it to Paul Buchbayev and if he will take it on consignement - you will kill two birds with one stone...check stamp and auction it in very reputable place for Russian material. BTW - can you publish scan of the back of this stamp?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top

Powered by the Rossica Society
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2017 The XMB Group
[Queries: 17]